A Feast For Crows Discussion Thread
Let's use the comments section for this post to break down AFFC. SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on the comments if you haven't finished the book!
posted by Lorrimer @ 1:29 AM
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Let's use the comments section for this post to break down AFFC. SPOILER WARNING! Do not click on the comments if you haven't finished the book!
posted by Lorrimer @ 1:29 AM
10 Comments:
DISCUSSION STARTERS:
-What did you think?
-What were the most significant events?
-Is Sandor Clegane really dead or not? Significant quotations?
-Who else is really dead or not?
-Any new clues to the backstory? Any new R+L=J stuff? Any Tyrion Targaryen info?
-Is Dany the One?
-New speculation about what's coming next? (Only based on what was in this book, please).
-Was this book necessary at all? Did GRRM waste two years writing a bunch of shit that could have been summarized in a couple of chapters of a much more interesting book?
-And a moment to celebrate and honor Sam getting laid. Way to go, Sam!
Brienne: eventually going to fuck Jaime Lannister? Maybe the two of them bring down Cersei together or something?
Martell's plans: Now seem to be about supporting Dany in her claim for the Iron Throne, no?
Lia (or anyone): Where is the actual information about Aerys visting Casterly Rock at the right time to impregnate Tyrion's mother and piss off Tywin? I just read the first three books again and totally missed it. Or is that just speculation? Or is it from some other source?
nice, im glad you started this. yes, "the hound" is "dead" but sandor is not, he is working as a gravedigger at the quiet isle. re-read that brienne chapter, and play close attention.
tywin was already pissed at aerys for making jaime one of his kingsguard, AND refusing to marry rhaegar to cersei. that alone was enough to make him quit as hand and betray aerys during the rebellion. there is absolutely no info on aerys and joanna meeting, anywhere in this or any book. this is just speculation. i personally think that if just making jaime a KG and refusing cersei for rheagar made tywin THAT pissed... well... if he thought that joanna actually did fuck aerys, he would have done something else before the rebellion. but perhaps he did not know.
also, remember that grrm said that the 3rd head DOES NOT HAVE TO BE A TARGARYEN. so the whole aerys/joanna thing does not have to be true for tyrion to be the 3rd head. plus,if we think tyrion is half targ, wouldnt he have one green eye and one PURPLE eye? he has one black eye, and his hair is mixed blond and black, iirc. if he is anyone's bastard, i think its a dornishman's...
after the last sansa chapter, it sounds like SHE may well be the young beautiful queen from cersei's prophecy... i had thought it was dany but now i am not sure, dany may come later, and cersei's downfall is eminent (god i loved seeing cersei finally get hers... KARMA YOU BITCH!) also, goddamn littlefinger is one smart bastard. you all caught that the lyn corbray thing was an act to keep the vale, right?
i suppose it could be possible that the 3 heads could be jon and his 2 "sisters," dany and sansa. though dany seems to be the primary dragon-person, so it should probably be tyrion. sansa is still too proper to ride a dragon, i think, though maybe alayne isnt... still i lean towards tyrion.
remember that bran can also warg into animals, even hodor, and has constant dreams about "learning to fly." dragons fly. ;)
from that first dorne chapter, when doran locks up the sand snakes and says "let them howl loud enough for tywin lannister to hear us and know how loyal i am, etc" i knew that he was backing dany, and/or sending someone to her. i think the dornish have been working, in secret with varys and probably illyrio, to bring back the targ reign. ESPECIALLY if arianne was promised to viserys (boy did she dodge a bullet there), it means that dorne has been plotting to bring back the targs since the whole elia-raped children-smashed-against-walls thing.
think about how many people are going to dany at this point. i think that might be the point of this book, to show what dany is going to encounter in adwd. i count at least 5 entities going to her and her dragons. the golden company included. the golden company remember descended from the targ bastards who fought in the blackfyre rebellion, and they want to come home to "their" lands. no doubt they want to join dany's cause. THAT'S why they broke their contract with myr. i think.
the point of brienne was a) to show the countryside the way that they arya chapters always did. she shows us the land of westeros after the war, the smallfolk, the effect of war on the people. b) to show us that the hound is alive, and where he is. c) to show us whats going on with berics band, that beric died after reviving cat, and to show us what the fuck cat is up to. i dont like her anymore.
did brienne die? what was the word she said, do you think? jaime? sansa? sword? if she swore to kill jaime instead of being hung then that will be sad. she loves him, obviously.
(continued) apparently there is limited room :p
brienne may kill jaime, but not before he somehow kills cersei. valonquar means little brother, and jaime was born after cersei. he might kill her just by refusing to champion her, or he might actually just kill her. gold hand could be good for chokiing. i love how he tossed the letter in the fire. that was awesome. i liked the snow falling on the last page too. winter is... HERE.
littlefinger now has a HUGE motivation to kill tyrion, so that sansa can be widowed and remarried to harry. tyrion is damn smart but if anyone can outsmart him it would be littlefinger :(
remember the sand snake daughter that doran mentions is gone from dorne playing her... game? named sarella? re-read the prologue and the last sam chapter, and play attention to the names of the citadel kids.
also in the prologue and the last sam chapter - you will find jaquen hagar.
this was a "middle" book, like adam said... it wasnt as action filled but i feel he was setting everything up for the next book. i still loed being in westeros-land while i read though.
Fuck, Lia, I guess all those sticky notes really do make a difference. I'm going to have to read it all again. FUCK.
The other scene I want to read again is Arya chasing the cat through the Red Keep in the first book, and overhearing those two guys talking in the secret passageway. Has that ever been explained? Might that be connected to the Dorne/Varys/Targaryen stuff?
Other responses:
-I don't care what GRRM has said. If the 3rd head isn't a Targaryen, I'm going to be pissed. That's total bullshit. Unless he explains it within a book somehow. It can't be Bran or Sansa. I still think Tyrion is a Targaryen.
-Isn't Margaery the young and beautiful queen from Cersei's prophecy?
-NICE FUCKING CALL on Valonquar referring to Jaime instead of Tyrion.
-Littlefinger: smart enough to be the main badguy of the entire series, I think. I bet he will be sitting the Iron Throne when Dany returns to Westeros on dragon-back.
thank you, thank you, i'm glad someone can appreciate the fruits of my ocd.
the guys arya overhears in KL match the descriptions of varys (in his gaoler disguise, which was mentioned in this book as well) and illyrio. it is that scene which prompts the theory that those 2 are trying to bring back the targ reign. and remember how varys had jorah spying on dany?
i want the 3rd to be a targ too. tyrion may be a targ, but remember how jaime's aunt genna said that tyrion was tywin's "true" son? they were a lot alike... i just dont know. it could be another secret targ we dont know about. barristan's dying words: "there... is... another... targ...aryen..." :p
"Isn't Margaery the young and beautiful queen from Cersei's prophecy?"
i believe that that was cersei's downfall. she THOUGHT margaery was the young queen, partially due to her insane paranoia, and also because she didnt listen to any of the dragon rumors and doesnt know about dany. and varys planting of the tyrell coin in his fake gaoler's cell made her even more paranoid of the tyrells (as she should be since the queen of thorns killed joff) but anyway, i was thinking the whole time, you dumbass, its not margaery, its dany, listen to the talk about dragons instead of blowing it off! you dumb bitch! and remember how she said margaery wasnt prettier than her? i think margaery is pretty, but not that dazzling lannister beauty. i still think its probably dany - targs are gorgeous... but i now think it could possibly be sansa too, depending on whether she grows up to be "pretty" or "beautiful." it could be margaery too i guess, but that just seems to easy.
"Littlefinger: smart enough to be the main badguy of the entire series, I think. I bet he will be sitting the Iron Throne when Dany returns to Westeros on dragon-back."
littlefinger will make it to the very end, no doubt. it was his talk about "3 queens" that got me thinking about cersei's prophecy and what kind of events might unfold...
do you think that once cersei learns that arys oakheart is dead, she will have the power, even within her cell, to name gregor to the kingsguard and have him be her champion?
also, dont know if i can call littlefinger a badguy. all the characters are so complex. and i must say i love how he is teaching sansa the game, and he is treating her pretty well (except for he "fatherly" kisses, those creep me out). but "alayne" is smarter than sansa - thats a character development i really enjoyed in this book, i think once sansa let go of her culturally constructed ideas of what it was to be a noble lady and could just be a bastard, she was able to be braver and stronger and smarter, no doubt part of little finger's plans. i have a feeling that he is going to make sansa more powerful than any of us ever dreamed. and hes funny. and damn smart. i like him. even though he helped to kill ned. remember, he helped to kill joffrey too. perhaps it balances out.
Uh... isn't Gregor very dead at this point?
Littlefinger is fucking creepy. Very smart, very funny, very clever -- and totally without morals. He wants A) Catelyn, B) Sansa, and C) the throne. Not sure in what order. I'd be interested in hearing speculation on how he plans to grab the throne. Will he marry into it the way he did with the Vale? Or will it be brute force?
Another random though: Tywin has another brother that's off in the east somewhere, right? Do we know anything more about him? Something with a "G" in his name, I think.
gregor is NOT dead, at least, not in the traditional sense. you know how qyburn took him down to the black cells to practice his "necromancy?" to cut the living up to see how they work inside, or whatever fun torture he likes? he has been "working" on gregor since the end of asos. the head they sent to dorne was the head of the high septon, whom cersei had osney kill, it was NOT gregor's head. if you re-read the chapter about the head you will see the references to the high septon's funeral. thats why qyburn, when cersei is imprisoned, tells cersei that she has a champion that no man can defeat just waiting for her command (whom she cannot use since he is not in the kingsguard). he meant gregor. thats why i asked if anyone thought that cersei would name gregor to the KG when she finds out arys is dead. gregor is now filled with black blood, has very well been brought back from the dead a bunch of times, and has had tons of black magic worked on him. when he finally re-appears, he will likely be one of the most frightening characters ever painted. he'll be like catelyn, except... much fucking scarier.
tywin does/did have a brother in the east, jaime's favorite uncle, gerion. joy is his daughter. he is presumed dead. no other word. some people think he is still alive, not sure how important he is. he could turn out to be VERY important though, if he comes across dany...
littlefinger will probably ascend to the throne through sansa, and just as he is about to sit down on it, dany's dragons will eat him :D
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